ISA NACEWA LOGS on for an early morning chat to preview Friday’s URC final, and joins the call with a little piece of Leinster history visible in the background.
Just over his right shoulder, a framed shirt from the province’s famed 2011 Heinken Cup final defeat of Northampton Saints hands proudly on the wall.
It’s an immediate reminder that Nacewa was part of a golden period for the province, where Leinster would establish themselves as true European heavyweights.
Things feel a little different now. While Leinster remain one of the top teams in Europe, the long wait for a fifth Champions Cup title ensures the pressure rises with every passing season.
That bubbling pressure has led to a remarkable few weeks where Leo Cullen and Jacques Nienaber have both engaged in tetchy exchanges with the media. In Nienaber’s case, the South African coach went as far as to cast doubt over his immediate future with the province. While under contract until 2027, Nienaber told reporters “people don’t value me here”.
Some Leinster supporters have been frustrated with the style of play since Nienaber came on board. Nacewa, who won seven trophies during his time with Leinster, doesn’t fall into that bracket.
“Oh, look, I’ve heard the players love him,” Nacewa says.
“The players love his detail. They love his intent and his experience and the Leinster team and Leinster coaches, they’ve always evolved as the coaching group has changed, and they’re always seeking new ideas from different environments.
“It’s been part of the Leinster fabric for a long time now, and especially under Leo Cullen over the last eight years. So they’re always looking for that edge, and with any coaching team there’s always an evolution, and it doesn’t always click firsthand. But I think the players speak very highly of Jacques and what he’s brought and the detail that he’s brought and that seniority into the fold.
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Nacewa won seven trophies during his time with Leinster. Dan Sheridan / INPHO
Dan Sheridan / INPHO / INPHO
“And yeah, there’s often a lot of noise around what it’s done to say the Leinster DNA, but at the end of the day, they’re still making finals, and they’re there at the right end of the season. Any evolution has its ups and downs. I think Jacques’ just added to it. But the players really respect what he’s brought to the club.”
Former South Africa and Bulls lock Victor Matfield joined Nacewa on this morning’s URC panel, and added that he’s certain the Springboks would move to get Nienaber back on board should he finish up with Leinster.
“Well, I can tell you South Africa would love to have him involved,” Matfield says.
“I mean, it’s just my opinion, I don’t know what’s happening there, but if you don’t extend his contract with Leinster, I think he’ll 100% be at the World Cup with the Springbok team.
“There’s no one understanding that rush defence like Jacques. I know they’ve still done really well last year without him. And him and Rassie are really close as well. So I think if the opportunity is there for Rassie to get Jacques back, somehow he will make it work.
“Look, South Africa already needs a second bus for our management, so they can add another one onto that bus as well.
But Jacques is so highly rated in South Africa, so if there’s any opportunity to get him back, I really believe we would throw anything to get him back with the Springbok team.”
On Nienaber’s influence on the style of play, Nacewa believes it’s only natural that Leinster’s DNA would change as new coaches enter the environment.
“I spoke a few weeks back saying I would love to play under Jacques, the defensive mindset and what he brings in the detail is an evolution, and no DNA can really stay the same when you’re adding new people into an environment, it just naturally evolves.
“So I’ve really enjoyed it. When it comes to crunch time, they’re in finals, so there’s other teams that would pull someone’s arm off to be where Leinster are. And the Bulls are no different, they’re consistently probably the two top teams in the URC year-on-year and they’re there when it matters.
“So to be at Croke Park in the final of the URC on a Friday night is a pretty damn good achievement, just to be there. So you can say it’s Leinster DNA, I just think it’s part of the evolution of the game.”
Matfield interjected to outline his belief that Leinster don’t get the credit they deserve for regularly making finals.
“I just want to echo Isa as well on Leinster. It’s almost like the All Blacks where, I mean South Africa lose two games, we’ve (still) got the best coach in the world, they (New Zealand) lose three games and they fire their coach.
Victor Matfield playing for the Bulls in 2009. Alamy Stock Photo
Alamy Stock Photo
“I think Leinster is almost in the same position. I mean, being in two finals almost every year, boys, Leinster is the ultimate club at the moment to play against in the final. This is going to be a huge challenge for the Bulls to go over to Croke Park. I’ve played at Croke Park. Not a nice experience with the opposition team, so it’s going to be tough.”
Asked to expand on what he sees in Leinster’s defence these days, Nacewa says the approach isn’t a world a way from the system in place during his time with the province.
“They’re not too dissimilar. That’s the irony in all of this. Whichever name you want to coin it. Let’s say the Stuart Lancaster style of defence, which had good width, good spacing, good decisions at rucks, good line speed, 13 in the front line, two at the back, it sounds pretty similar to what Jacques is doing and has done.
“And personally, I would have loved to have played under Jacques. I think he’s incredible and I love the style of defence and the pressure it builds on teams. So the real fine details might be subtly different, but overall they were two pretty fully loaded front lines with a lot of line speed, just done subtly differently.”
Nacewa added that he was surprised to see the news that James Lowe would be leaving the province at the end of the season.
“Yeah, that’s a tough one. It’s interesting that he doesn’t get a contract but becomes the all-time leading try-scorer for Leinster in the last game.
“Look, he’s been an absolute threat since he landed and we picked him up from the airport in Dublin sort of 10 seasons ago now, and he’s helped mentor the Tommy O’Briens, the Jimmy O’Briens, just so much influence on the club, and just a great human at the same time.
“But you know, the decision’s hard. I’m not privy to any of the decisions but he’s been a weapon for Ireland and a weapon for Leinster. So was I surprised? Yeah, absolutely. I don’t know the ins and outs of what went on, but James has obviously made the decision that’s right for him and his family.”
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Leinster legend Nacewa: 'I would have loved to play under Jacques'
ISA NACEWA LOGS on for an early morning chat to preview Friday’s URC final, and joins the call with a little piece of Leinster history visible in the background.
Just over his right shoulder, a framed shirt from the province’s famed 2011 Heinken Cup final defeat of Northampton Saints hands proudly on the wall.
It’s an immediate reminder that Nacewa was part of a golden period for the province, where Leinster would establish themselves as true European heavyweights.
Things feel a little different now. While Leinster remain one of the top teams in Europe, the long wait for a fifth Champions Cup title ensures the pressure rises with every passing season.
That bubbling pressure has led to a remarkable few weeks where Leo Cullen and Jacques Nienaber have both engaged in tetchy exchanges with the media. In Nienaber’s case, the South African coach went as far as to cast doubt over his immediate future with the province. While under contract until 2027, Nienaber told reporters “people don’t value me here”.
Some Leinster supporters have been frustrated with the style of play since Nienaber came on board. Nacewa, who won seven trophies during his time with Leinster, doesn’t fall into that bracket.
“Oh, look, I’ve heard the players love him,” Nacewa says.
“The players love his detail. They love his intent and his experience and the Leinster team and Leinster coaches, they’ve always evolved as the coaching group has changed, and they’re always seeking new ideas from different environments.
“It’s been part of the Leinster fabric for a long time now, and especially under Leo Cullen over the last eight years. So they’re always looking for that edge, and with any coaching team there’s always an evolution, and it doesn’t always click firsthand. But I think the players speak very highly of Jacques and what he’s brought and the detail that he’s brought and that seniority into the fold.
“And yeah, there’s often a lot of noise around what it’s done to say the Leinster DNA, but at the end of the day, they’re still making finals, and they’re there at the right end of the season. Any evolution has its ups and downs. I think Jacques’ just added to it. But the players really respect what he’s brought to the club.”
Former South Africa and Bulls lock Victor Matfield joined Nacewa on this morning’s URC panel, and added that he’s certain the Springboks would move to get Nienaber back on board should he finish up with Leinster.
“Well, I can tell you South Africa would love to have him involved,” Matfield says.
“I mean, it’s just my opinion, I don’t know what’s happening there, but if you don’t extend his contract with Leinster, I think he’ll 100% be at the World Cup with the Springbok team.
“There’s no one understanding that rush defence like Jacques. I know they’ve still done really well last year without him. And him and Rassie are really close as well. So I think if the opportunity is there for Rassie to get Jacques back, somehow he will make it work.
“Look, South Africa already needs a second bus for our management, so they can add another one onto that bus as well.
On Nienaber’s influence on the style of play, Nacewa believes it’s only natural that Leinster’s DNA would change as new coaches enter the environment.
“I spoke a few weeks back saying I would love to play under Jacques, the defensive mindset and what he brings in the detail is an evolution, and no DNA can really stay the same when you’re adding new people into an environment, it just naturally evolves.
“So I’ve really enjoyed it. When it comes to crunch time, they’re in finals, so there’s other teams that would pull someone’s arm off to be where Leinster are. And the Bulls are no different, they’re consistently probably the two top teams in the URC year-on-year and they’re there when it matters.
“So to be at Croke Park in the final of the URC on a Friday night is a pretty damn good achievement, just to be there. So you can say it’s Leinster DNA, I just think it’s part of the evolution of the game.”
Matfield interjected to outline his belief that Leinster don’t get the credit they deserve for regularly making finals.
“I just want to echo Isa as well on Leinster. It’s almost like the All Blacks where, I mean South Africa lose two games, we’ve (still) got the best coach in the world, they (New Zealand) lose three games and they fire their coach.
“I think Leinster is almost in the same position. I mean, being in two finals almost every year, boys, Leinster is the ultimate club at the moment to play against in the final. This is going to be a huge challenge for the Bulls to go over to Croke Park. I’ve played at Croke Park. Not a nice experience with the opposition team, so it’s going to be tough.”
Asked to expand on what he sees in Leinster’s defence these days, Nacewa says the approach isn’t a world a way from the system in place during his time with the province.
“They’re not too dissimilar. That’s the irony in all of this. Whichever name you want to coin it. Let’s say the Stuart Lancaster style of defence, which had good width, good spacing, good decisions at rucks, good line speed, 13 in the front line, two at the back, it sounds pretty similar to what Jacques is doing and has done.
“And personally, I would have loved to have played under Jacques. I think he’s incredible and I love the style of defence and the pressure it builds on teams. So the real fine details might be subtly different, but overall they were two pretty fully loaded front lines with a lot of line speed, just done subtly differently.”
Nacewa added that he was surprised to see the news that James Lowe would be leaving the province at the end of the season.
“Yeah, that’s a tough one. It’s interesting that he doesn’t get a contract but becomes the all-time leading try-scorer for Leinster in the last game.
“Look, he’s been an absolute threat since he landed and we picked him up from the airport in Dublin sort of 10 seasons ago now, and he’s helped mentor the Tommy O’Briens, the Jimmy O’Briens, just so much influence on the club, and just a great human at the same time.
“But you know, the decision’s hard. I’m not privy to any of the decisions but he’s been a weapon for Ireland and a weapon for Leinster. So was I surprised? Yeah, absolutely. I don’t know the ins and outs of what went on, but James has obviously made the decision that’s right for him and his family.”
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